
I have been participating in an on-going email discussion with a mom who is interested in TOG but can't decide if buying the plans are worth the money if you can work from the book list shared on the Tapestry of Grace website. I thought about it for exactly three seconds before I replied. Here is what I wrote her to answer her question.
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Dear Friend,
I can't imagine trying to recreate my own schedule without the plans from TOG. TOG is so much more than a schedule of books.
Planning: I just got done planning for the week with my boys and we used the first page of the notes (General Information page) to introduce our topics for the week. The books weave the topics into their reading. They are able to tie the main ideas into their reading both in literature and history. This helps with their narrations and writing assignments. If you want to use the student pages from TOG, they are all there waiting for you to pick and choose how to use them with your family. I sometimes assign the accountability questions to be discussed at our Friday meetings. This saves me from having to read every book they read. The Teacher's notes are so thorough that I have not had to keep up with their reading but we still have great Socratic discussions on Fridays because I can read the summaries and World Book accounts that are included in TOG.
Writing: TOG also includes great writing suggestions which I use without the Writing Aids CD but instead use them as jumping off points and suggestions for the boys to use as written narrations each week.
Living Book Experience: In the Rhetoric level, I have thoroughly enjoyed the Pageant of Philosophy information which is hard to explain until you have it in your hands. Basically, it is a play built around a character named Simplicio that meets different real people from history and the TOG pages share the discussion that Simplicio and the historical character have. Much of what the historical characters say in these plays are direct quotes from their own writings. We read it as a reader's theater on Friday's as part of our meeting. These sorts of insights into various historical characters have given us a sort of "living book" experience.
Buffet of choices: Also, the TOG plans include activities, vocabulary, geography assignments, art and music appreciation suggestions, timeline information, and suggestions for unit celebration activities. I am sure you could use the book list and make your own plans but that would take a lot more energy than I am willing to put into it. Besides, I could never recreate the experience of the weekly discussions without the Teacher's Notes.
I know that many families using CM just let their children read and narrate and they never participate in a discussion. For our family, those discussions are the highlight of our week.
Vary our approach week by week: I also am the kind of person that likes to pick and choose what we do each week since my boys learn in different ways. Some weeks we read, narrate, and discuss. Some weeks we make maps from the geography assignments instead of written narration. Some weeks we focus on literature and the boys recite a passage from their reading. Sometimes I like to jump down to the Dialectic level and read a book. We are doing that this week and reading an additional book from the lower level just for fun.
Anyway, a very long email to say that would not have been the same experience without the plans on paper right in front of me. The books would be dry bones by themselves.
Barb































15 comments:
Hi Barb,
If she wants an affordable history-based booklist without "plans" but *GREAT* biblical commentary, please tell her to check out TruthQuest History guides.
{no offense to you awesome TOG-users!}
~melanie
I agree--TruthQuest is great as a booklist and does add some discussion, but as little/as much as you want. That said, I'm learning toward ordering Tapestry for this year to see what we're missing!
I'm not the mom you have been chatting with, but I've been asking the same question for months. I've even borrowed someone's TOG to look through and still couldn't decided if I really needed it. I feel like things have been going pretty smoothly with me picking our books on my own. BUT having read this post, I think I may just have to take the plunge. : )
Kellie
But.....my point with TOG is that it allows the Socratic discussions that rhetoric students need in my opinion (see the link in the post to TOG and their explanation of Socratic discussion). I love having all the World Book entries and summaries at my fingertips.
I have looked at the samples of TruthQuest because I know that many people that I respect use this curricula. I like the way TOG is organized better, it fits my style. I also liked the selection of literature better in TOG, at least at the R level. It included many, many classics that I wanted to offer my boys in their high school years.
I guess I need a certain amount of hand-holding in the high school. Although I considered myself a very good student, I realize now that I am learning just as much as they are with TOG.
Could this happen with another curricula plan? Sure, but TOG fits my style best. :)
Barb-Harmony Art Mom
argsmommy,
I have been known to draw from booklists, Sonlight and AO for the most part.
I just don't think that in the high school level that I am doing justice to great literature without some input for the books that I have not personally read. Sure, I could hand my boys a list of books to read and call it school but I want better than that for them. They are *ready* for so much more interaction with ideas and thoughts and I need to participate in that with them. They do not have the life experiences to understand things like Dante and Chaucer without some idea of how to weave it into history and with other authors. The TOG notes help me do that on a level that makes me happy with the results.
I do give them a "free reading" list of books that they just read and enjoy and we talk if they want to during the week. These are in addition to the books scheduled in TOG. I gleaned this idea from Ambleside Online. It works for us.
Barb-Harmony Art Mom
Barb,
I completely agree with your assessment. I've used TOG for 5 years now, and I'll admit that when my kids were Upper Grammar level, I pretty much just used the booklists. I read a lot of it aloud, and we discussed it as we went. I never even looked at the Teachers Notes back then. Once my kids reached D level, and *especially* at the R level, the Teachers Notes are like gold! Not just having the World Book notes (which is awfully handy), not just having the discussion guidelines (our discussions wouldn't be nearly as rich as they are without them), but the insights that are sprinkled throughout these things -- those are what I really treasure. I'm not always strong at making connections on my own, and those connections are pointed out for me, explained in a thoughtful way, giving me insights I would NEVER have on my own!
Thanks Jana....it was great to hear that I am not the only one who needs a helping hand with the material in the rhetoric level. :)
I had another thought too. This time around the cycle we are pulling from the earlier studies of the same time periods in history. I need to know how to fit it all together and the teacher's notes in TOG help *me* to make the connections. My boys many times have already made the connections but I seem to have a hard time breaking my old public school mentality about the need to get the "correct" answer. TOG has helped me to get over those humps and continue on to the important stuff. TOG also pulls European and American history together and parallels the thoughts, ideas, and people in a way that I haven't found in our programs.
Thanks for your comment,
Barb
We are pretty new to the CM method and I have been researching. I like Ambleside but I'm struggling with knowing what the boys are supposed to narrate, what the "answers" our, what the discussion should be. We are a family with a serious spirit of debate but I don't even know where to start. I have a 4 kids 14, 12, 5, and 3. I've been seriously thinking about something like TOG just because of the organization for the will be High schooler come fall. Is it too late, will he be lost or is TOG comprehensive enough to jump in wherever. One of the many questions that I'm struggling with. Please help!! LOL.
Christi,
You most definitely could start TOG in high school. I would think that you would love having one plan for all of your kids to work together in some areas. I think the TOG plans would give you some shape to your discussions. I many times use the questions they put down as a jumping off spot for narrations. Just today we had a very long talk about the Constitution using the chart they have in the teacher's guide. The boys did not fill in the chart but we discussed the powers and limits of the Constitution drawing from their history readings this week. It was excellent.
The teacher's notes go beyond the correct "answers" but to the meat of the topics and let you draw up from your children any important points they don't narrate about from their readings.
Hope that helps.
Barb
Thanks, I just realized that I that I asked a question on an old post. Thanks for responding. That's what I was thinking, that I could organize it better, meet the High Schooler(that still terrifies me to type) where he needs to be and get everyone else organized and into some type of pattern of daily life. I've read that TOG is a little overwhelming, are you able to glean what you need pretty easily from it or does it take alot of study. I hate to buy it and then spend all my time rewriting it, so to speak. On the other hand I am not scared to take a list of activities and decide we'll do this, this and this, and we'll skip that. If that makes any sense to anyone but me. LOL. I appreciate your input, I spend alot of time at this site and and Handbook of nature study, and I really admire your style and dedication.
Christi,
If you look on my left sidebar of this blog, I have a section for TOG posts. I know I talk about how I plan out our TOG there quite a bit.
Short answer: I spend about 4 or 5 hours per unit (4 units in a year) doing my big planning...checking books, picking assignments, making notes for myself and getting a general idea of the overall topics and focus for the unit. In addition, I spend about an hour on Monday mornings with the boys going over the big picture for the week using the General Info page from the teacher's notes. We discuss topics, look at books assigned, make sure they have in mind the discussion topics I plan for Friday, and generally introduce the week. (We enjoy this time together.)
This planning time includes history, literature, geography, writing, art and music appreciation, and philosophy (R level).
Not bad for what you get as an end product in my opinion.
Don't get me wrong. There is a learning curve on how to use the TOG plans. I still think it is worth the effort.
Barb
Thanks alot for your insight. I just downloaded the Samples from TOG, so I'll be studying those for awhile to see if I think I'm organized enough to make it work.
Just something I noticed.
Nobody has commented on the unicycle in the library. :)
Yes it is mine. :)
No I don't ride it.
Barb
Hi, Barb. My first question was going to be... who's unicycle??? Thanks for answering.:-)
I'm also HEAVILY leaning towards TOG for next year, though my daugther would be in UG. Right now, I'm mainly trying to decide what "else" to buy (like the LOOM) and if I should buy just one unit (to make sure I like it) or the whole year. We'll be doing Year 1.
Another question, of course I know you lean heavily towards nature studies - as do I! But, with older kids and hindsight... what kind of science do you think a child in UG should be learning? Do you have a curriculum you've used & loved? I was actually a middle school science teacher, but I'm struggling to teach my daughter anything more than some nature and some bios. Well, I guess we do hit a lot of science off & on, but I don't have a "plan" and it's kind of hit & miss. It's what I'm "worrying" about most for next year!
Thanks,
Dana (drleeds at sbcglobal dot net if you'd rather email)
Dana,
I think you should give it a try! I always get the Loom and the MapAids CD. I do not use the WritingAids CD or any of the lapbooks.
I emailed you about science. :)
Barb
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